Lessons Learned are in the second post, if you want to skip over all this rambling...
----------------------------------

Spent 3/5 out on FR41 with Mattman555, his friend Kevin (shiny new 4Runner Sport Edition, glossy black), and friends Norma, Chris, and Laura (as passengers). Originally, I'd gotten in touch with Matt to see if he could go as a support vehicle, as I wanted to take my Stepdad across the trail before he and Mom headed back north. They've been talking about it all winter, but he has MD and is not particularly mobile, so another vehicle seemed like a good idea. Because of ongoing health issues, they opted out at the last minute, which eventually turned out to be for the better - they day ended up being longer and more physical than envisioned.

We decided to continue with the original plan and run the trail. Because we intended on being in Cave Creek by lunch, I took the minimalist Pepsi and bottle of water. Matt and Norma had a few apples and some nuts (insert jokes here).

At the quarry near the entrance, a young kid (Andrew, as I recall) was flogging a white Escape (rental) in the mud. Matt then ran his Pathy thru the test, actually lifting front tires here and there and catching some air over the bumps.

It had rained the night before, so the trail was freshly wet again. The west end of the trail is made of clay with decomposed granite, which packs your tires when wet (like driving on ice), and sets up like concrete when it dries. Though this trail is rather easy dry, all bets are off when it's wet (which 2 guys in a Dodge found out, later on in the story). The 4Runner spent a lot of time crabbing down the trail, the street tires struggling for traction. But, he got it thru the muddy parts and stayed out of the ravines - it was really slick.

Along the way, we were passed by 3 well-equipped Wranglers. We caught up again to the Escape and its companion white 4Runner (driven by another "Chris") about 1/3 of the way in, before you start the swtichbacks into Cholla Springs. They wanted to tag along with us, so we continued on, as traction was getting better as the trail surface turned to decomposed granite primarily.

We finally got to the only rock garden, where you cross New River for about 100 feet. The water was the deepest I've seen there, but nothing insurmountable. However, it did make it challenging to see the proper line. At that point, the Escape and white 4Runner turned around and headed back. We discussed the line with Kevin (shiny black 4Runner) and decided to continue on.

Matt went thru first, purposefully taking a line that attempted to crawl over a rock that was as big as the front of his truck. He'd been having problems with his auto hubs and they weren't up to the task, so he backed up and took the "normal" line.

Maybe we didn't communicate clearly to Kevin that Matt was just screwing around, but he attempted the same line that Matt initially took - and ended up rubbing the front of his bumper around on that rock in a vain attempt to get the passenger side up on it. Even if he'd succeeded, I doubt the running boards woulda been too happy. When I realized what he was doing, I got out of my truck and did the best I could at spotting him thru (without actually standing in the river). He made it thru unscathed from there.

Ironically, when I drove thru, it was the smoothest line I've ever had thru there. The flash flooding must have moved some of the trouble rocks around enough to make a surprisingly clear path.

Down to the 3 rigs again, we continued eastward.

The trail stays mostly decomposed granite, except for one section (on a slope of course) that turns back to snotty clay. There's a short, steep downhill into a creek bottom. And what did we find on that section?

The 3 Wranglers, daisy-chained together, with a tow cable to a Dodge 3500 dually diesel. The ig Dodge had small street tires with minimal tread. It had slid off to the side and into the ditch. 4WD was apparently not functioning, leaving them stranded. The 3 Jeeps were pulling to get him straightened out and back on the trail, which they succeeded in doing.

Once straight, the Dodge tried to back up the slope, and ended up getting diagonal again. The lead Jeep put a strap on him and straightened him out once more. After that, the Jeeps packed up their gear, went around the Dodge, down the hill, thru the mudhole and continued on.

Problem solved, right? Nope.

While Matt and I were discussing whether or not Kevin's 4Runner would make it down the hill and thru the mudhole without bumper damage, that Dodge was still spinning its tires trying to get backwards up the trail.

Even though that Dodge was back on the trail, it was too slick for it to get moving backwards to any place it could've turned around (of which there were minimal options). So, Matt strapped to the Dodge, I strapped to Matt, and we all backed up the trail about 100 yards to the best turnaround point we could figure. The Dodge was in 2WD, Matt was in 2WD at that point, but between the 3 rigs, we made it.

We did a lot of rock stacking (for the ditch) and got that big old diesel turned around and pointed West. As it turns out, the 2 guys in the Dodge had gone in on Friday night, the rain had started, the trail turned to slime, they'd gotten stuck.

And spent the night there!

They were actually walking out when the Jeepers came across them. They had nothing warm (t-shirt, jeans, one guy had a jean jacket), no water, no food... Yikes.

Had we gone around the Dodge like the Jeepers did, those guys would still be there. Matt and Norma gave them apples and water so they at least had a little something.

Though we were about 3/4 of the way across the trail, we didn't know what might lie ahead to the East, so now at 4 rigs, we headed West back to the I-17. The sun had been out all day, and the trail was drier than when we'd first went in, so no further strapping was needed. Like a dumba$$, I left the video camera in the truck when the Dodge went back thru New River at the rock garden section. It was pretty cool to see that behemoth, in 2WD just churning it's way thru there. I think it's safe to say that the smooth line the first time thru has now changed drastically. They did make it thru, though, no tow required.

So, that's the gist of our day. It was much longer and physical than I think any of us had expected.

Later that evening, after a beer or three, I was watching some of the video and got to thinking about some things I've learned by hanging out at this board, and other things I've learned the hard way via experience (walking 10 miles out of the mountains, in the snow, in the dark, is a lesson not soon forgotten).

I'll post up those observations in the next thread. I wonder if this one will even post?

-matt

Lessons Learned:


1. When we came across the Jeeps, I noted some key things (this is not meant to start a flame war or to pick on Jeeps, it's just an observation):

The back two rigs were using WalMart tow straps (with hooks) to daisy chain. On top of that, they didn't even throw a towel across the strap to make it drop in case it broke. And on top of THAT, they had their kids with them, in the vehicle, while they were pulling on the Dodge. Okay, you want to risk your head getting ventilated by a pointy metal object, that's your biz. But to have your kids riding shotgun and put them at risk? Or, any passenger for that matter. Poor judgement, in my opinion.

The lead Jeep was using the winch and cable/chain to pull on the Dodge, with people milling about the tow cable. People needed to be further back, or don't tow.

2. Here's a thought that I'd be curious on what other peoples' outlook is:

The Jeeps didn't actually finish the job. They got the Dodge lined up, then they left. They did not know if we'd continue on and didn't seem to care. Had Matt and I not been there, or had decided to continue on, that Dodge would've gotten stuck immediately. Seems to me that if you're going to help (and you should), you see it thru to the very end, even if that means changing your plans.

Our initial conversation about turning around centered around Kevin and the amount of scrapes his 4Runner might take getting thru the mudhole at the bottom of the hill. However, it became quickly apparent that the reason to turn around was to ensure that the Dodge made it out safely.

3. The guys in the Dodge were completely unprepared for what they encountered. No food, no water, no warm clothing, not even sure if they had so much as a cell phone. I hope they at least had beer on the way in.

They also didn't seem to be familiar with the trail. My guess is that they'll probably not drive unkown trails in the dark during a rainstorm. Or any trails at all now, for that matter.

4. I was not prepared for the day like I normally am. I usually carry a first aid kit (woulda been good for my two sliced fingers from the Dodge), which I didn't. I usually have extra clothing, which I didn't. I usually have more water/soda/gatorade and food than I need for a couple days, which I didn't. It reinforced to me that not everything goes according to the "brief Saturday drive have lunch in Cave Creek" plan and that my "if it fits in the truck, take it" approach is maybe not so far-fetched.

5. Lastly, I think that wet AZ trails are not the best place to learn off-roading. When traction is minimal, being able to pick a line, knowing where each tire is and how your rig will react, becomes extremely important. Kevin did a great job of getting the 'Runner thru the challenges but I'm sure it was intimidating and made a generally no-brainer run rather stressful.

But, it all had a happy ending and now we have more stories to add to the collection.

Oh, and I learned one other thing: Girls can hold their pee for a very, very, VERY long time.

-matt

Short video can be found here.

Shows the Escape and Matt's Pathy flailing about in the mud, and a couple other things I thought were funny.

Working on a longer version that includes the Dodge towing, shows the Escape doing some nice water crossings, and then the main rock garden/river crossing. I'll get to that... eventually.

Regards,

-matt

Well, we'll see that trail next Friday.......

Glad you all made it out.

Matt that was a great write up...

One other lessoned learned is.. Never split up the group... No matter how bad you want to get back...

ROTFLMAO!! Mattman...I'm willing to bet Norma kicked your ass good, and that was the true reason you couldn't sit down today.

She didn't know we had lifted a tire until she saw the Video.. and then I got it.. OUCH

Hello. I am Andrew. The driver of the 05 Ford Escape Rental. Hense the name. RentalRomper....he he he.

First I would like to say thank you to everyone that day. You guys were very helpful. I wish there were more people like you guys. I appreciate it.

The vehicle made it through some pretty hairy situations. The only part on the vehicle that I damaged was a passenger side front tow hook. The hook was a solid chunk of metal and some how I managed to bend and mangle it smashing it up against the frame. The only way that I could think of how I did it, was that it was what caught me on a couple of landings from catching some air. The Ford was well broken in when I returned it. With 405 miles on the odometer, It was ready for anything. I recieved that truck with 100 miles on the odometer and proceeded to break it in well.... That was the only visual damage. The front end seemed alittle off becuase of some odd pops during turns. That and I think I slightly tweeked the alignment....lol

Hopefully I will have the pleasure of off roading with you guys again. I plan to rent the Escape again soon becuase with all that I threw at it, It never once got stuck. Even the guys were surprised at how well it was getting through everything.

The video was great. I will be sure to check back for the longer version too. Thanks for putting that together.

Hope to see you guys again some time.
Wish I would have attempted that last river crossing. All well. Next time.

Thanks again Matt and Matt.

Hey Andrew!

Welcome to N4W! I'm glad to see you found your way here.

"RentalRomper", now that's funny right there.

That Escape handled things better than I would've guessed. Good driving on your part. The big Dodge we strapped further down the trail didn't fare so well...

Was nice to meet you and Chris, you guys made the drive quite humorous. If you happen to rent something else to take 4x4ing, consider an Xterra, a Jeep or anything that has a real transfer case and low range. Those rigs should get you larger tires, better ground clearance and a more useable 4wd. Then you'd really be set!



It'll probably be another week and a half or so before I get the longer version done and posted.

Regards,

-matt

I had originaly planned to rent a Jeep Liberty 4x4. But when it came time, they said that Enterprise wouldnt rent me on becuase I am under 25. They will rent me anything up to a Luxury car. But not a SUV. All well. I am going to have my mom rent it for me next time. That is why I got the Escape. Hertz had no problem renting that to me. Liberty for sure though next time. That way I can get some better dounuts going on to. That way I can put it in 2wd.

I will be sure to post it up when I plan to do so. That way maybe we can all meet up for some wheelin. If not, I will be sure to get all the video.

ROTFLMAO!!!

You should post that up in the General section so others can read that.

Thats funny becuase a member in the truck club that I am part of posted that up also not to long ago.

Funny stuff. That would be awesome to do.

Sorry it took so long here's all the PIC's

Those were some great pics.

Matt(Super), Any progress on the full version video. Just curious.