Todays adventures in the 64...









Ok...it seemed like the problem with vapor lock was worst when it is hot during the day and the truck is hot. I worked on it today and found that the strainer is leaking at the seal because the bowl is chipped up. This was sucking air. Checked drop tube and it is long, sealed it up around this fitting on tank. Then removed breather tube on tank, primed it from tank with a hand pump all the way to carb. We bypassed the strainer and removed filter, system is very clean so not that worried...truck fired up and ran good. Took it out and ran pretty well, did some wheeling and overall best it has performed yet. Yet, on several hills or off camber spots it will die. I think now this is in the carb and it not being good enough for offroading. This is a Rochester and not a stock carb. We would get it level and it fired right back up....after awhile though the carb got unadjusted it seemed because idle dropped off. Could not keep truck running the rest of the day without giving it fuel...if it died off camber it would not start until level. So like I say I think the remaining probs are in this carb. Will put on new breather tube and fix the strainer seal. The stock fuel pump seems to be working very well, does not get half as hot as eletric and is not vapor locking. The truck reved smooth and ran great overall other than these probs. Oh yea except we broke both windshiled hindges and had to ride home with it folded. Talk about mouthfulls of bugs!

Hmmmm....a custom FI setup is sounding better all the time.

Cool pics!

1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock
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What kind of gas mileage does the Patrols get? Just kinda wonderin...


Project: "Diamond in the rough"
1969 Nissan Patrol
Isuzu PUP rear springs(2" lift)
FJ-40 Rear Axle
Original driveshaft, slightly modified
Custom shackles
75,000 Original Miles!

quote:

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Originally posted by Desert Rat:
Hmmmm....a custom FI setup is sounding better all the time.
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You are right on. I'm so sick of that chevy carb. I think it is very difficult to dial in for the Patrol, if not impossible.

Jason
69' Patrol
3 speed, I-6
Custom Safari Top
Custom 3" Lift
32" X 9.50 Super Swampers
Superlift Shocks

quote:

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Originally posted by Desert Rat:
Are you having this problem when the truck is hot, or all the time? Sounds like vapor lock, but that'll only happen if you have a fuel line next to something hot, usually.

Fudd, DR brings up a good point with the vapor lock. I too have experienced similar problems with fuel delivery. My fuel pump is mounted on the driver's side front fender and all the lines are away from exhaust.

Or, it's possible your tank isn't properly vented making it difficult to suck fuel out of it because no air can enter to displace the fuel coming out. That's probably a longshot tho.

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Also, I think the fuel tank vent could be causing me problems. I noticed that my fuel vent just goes to my fill tube a few inches before the cap. I think I will add a plastic gas tank vent on that vent line and route the new line to a dry spot. I will then seal off the hose that came out of the fill hose.

Finally, I noticed that you (FUDD) said that it is best to mount the fuel pump close to the tank. Is this to minimize vapor lock? Has anyone else heard this too?

By the way, awesome pics Fudd.

Jason
69' Patrol
3 speed, I-6
Custom Safari Top
Custom 3" Lift
32" X 9.50 Super Swampers
Superlift Shocks

Hey Jason....

I dumped the eletric pump. Yes it was mounted on drivers side fender and lines ran away from heat areas. Didn't matter it was getting damn hot. I put back in a brand new stock fuel pump. Could not get it to run with this pump. I found several leaks in my fuel system, mostly around the seperator. It was not sealed and was sucking air. I skipped the filters and hooked it up directly to pump and it runs. Got out a brand new seperator as the one in it has chips on the glass bowl. Super hard to get it to seal so no air leaks, this old set up also sucks and the lil cork seal for the glass bowl bites. I thought I had it dialed last night, primed the fuel system and had it running. It reved and idled good in driveway last night. It was almost dark when I got done so I jumped in it to test drive. Started up the hill above my house and it dies about 100 yards out. It would not start again so I did not mess with it anymore. My vent tube is fine, currently unhooked at the tank. It just ran to the frame behind passanger door and was mounted with a 90 fitting....it could use a lil work when I hook it back up. I am at a bit of a loss with this other than all my fule lines and stuff not being super air tight. At this point that is all it could be...I think.

You are right the rochester sucks badly....I did find that it was an optional carb though late in production. It is listed in my 77 parts book. I still hate it and do not feel I can get it adjusted right for the motor. It is looking like I am going to send this rig down to Denver. A shop called Lindel Engineering, Dennis....he seems like he is a real good mech. He wants to work on my Pinz but I think this Patrol will be the test run with him to see if I like his work. If the Patrol goes to Denver it will be getting a lot done to it including better carb adapted. Also will get the tank fixed down there and other things. That is about all I know right now and where I am with this rig.

Old ford pickups with inline 6 cylinder engines through the mid 80's used a single barrell carb....you could probably find one for dirt in a wyoming salvage yard, as those things were everywhere up there. The bolt holes probably woudln't line up, but maybe you could make an adapter to use one of those carbs with your engines?

I rolled an '82 F150 as a teenager doing stupid stuff. It had the 300ci I6 motor and I had to shut the truck off - it was running upside down!

I think the Ford carbs were Holley's, but I am not positive.


1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock
Grow the Nissan Community and stand up for ORV user rights!

yea I am looking into better carbs. The stock one seems best to me for the stock engine but you can not get it anywhere. I heard that a holly offroad will suck but I dunno, only experience I have had with a holly was in my 1970 Fastback Mustang. What I talked about with a local mech was a 2v versus a 4v carb. He said the 2v will always be trouble offroad but a 4v will not. Personally FI would be best plus eletronic ignition but seems a bit hard and maybe expensive. So I plan to find a good offroading carb that is for about a 250 engine and then get an adaptor plate made.

DR, that is an awesome sig photo. Nice job

The idea about the Ford carb is interesting. I will have to look at one up close. Since it was engineered for the 300 I-6 do you think it might be too big for my Patrol. The adapter plate should be no problem to make at all. How thick of a plate do you think would be too thick? Are there any advantages to making it thicker?

This maybe a question for anyone who does not already own a patrol, but do the Rochecter carbs really suck that badly or is it just that we suck that badly at tuning it in for our trucks?

ANother option might be the carbs from the 258 jeep. THey came in 1 and 2 barrel configurations made by Carter and Weber. Or couldn't we just go 4 barrel and make it fit or would it be too much fuel and air for our old inlines? If some was crafty they could make a bolt on kit and sell 50 to 100 of them quite easily to all us challenged Patrol owners.

Just some thoughts...

Jason
69' Patrol
3 speed, I-6
Custom Safari Top
Custom 3" Lift
32" X 9.50 Super Swampers
Superlift Shocks

Is the head on a Patrol motor close to the same as a L series Z engine? Am wondering if a Z car aftermarket 4 bbl intake would bolt up. If so, that frees you up to do all sorts of stuff.

The Ford carb I mentioned, even though it came on a bigger motor, should work just fine if you can mate it to your intake.

Are those cast iron or aluminum intakes on the Patrol motors?

As for a plate, a thicker plate would somewhat increase intake volume, theoretically giving more HP much like a throttle body spacer. it's doubtful you'd notice any difference in varying thicknesses of a plate though as long as the intake route is nice and smooth going in (in other words the plate opening necks down to the size of the intake throat on the manifold.

I played so much with my Z carbs and intake when I had it....that used sidedraft carbs tho, however, like I mentioned, aftermarket standard 4bbl manifolds were made for Z engines.


1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock
Grow the Nissan Community and stand up for ORV user rights!

good posts dudes...

The Carter can be put on a Patrol, it was on my blue 64 when I bought it. It is the one I removed then rebuilt a Rochester and put it on. The intake and exhuast manifolds are made from cast iron. If someone who knows Z cars in and out only had a Patrol then the questions could be awnsered. I am not familiar with them to say....sure would be nice to get a eletronic ignition and a better carb on. I will find a carb solution anyways...

I think the Rochester does suck Jason. Mine will go out of adjustment easily, it also will do other funky things. I just rebuilt it too! Everything is how it should be but the damn carb does not act right.

On the NPCA an Aussie recently posted about a Ford Falcon conversion. It is a 250ci engine with fuel injection. I guess all you need to do it is a 10mm adapter plate and some new engi mounts. Read his post...he says it kicks arse! I personally am not that intrested in this conversion. If I convert I will go with a newer Nissan engine like an SD33....or if I go all out with C303 axles then I may use some Rover power tran stuff.

DR,

I can't imagine that a Z manifold would bolt up at all even with a lot on mods. But, I will try to make a trip to my friends 30 miles north. He has a 280 zx that we are going to try to use the dist. to get his 64 Patrol up and running again. If I go this week I will indeed take a long hard look and collect some measurements to see if in fact the Z engine is closer to my Patrol one than I think.

Jason
69' Patrol
3 speed, I-6
Custom Safari Top
Custom 3" Lift
32" X 9.50 Super Swampers
Superlift Shocks

You might consider adapting the 75-78 FI system from a Z car. It's analog so it doesn't use a digital ECU. I've seen them adapted to L20b and L16 engines for 510s.

that'd be a sweet setup. and with Okie and Datz around, those are just the guys who can help figure out how to make it work.


1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock
Grow the Nissan Community and stand up for ORV user rights!

BTW, Jason, you need the 4bbl Z intake. A normal carbed Z intake is made for 2 sidedrafts, and the FI one is made for a fuel rail.

Still, if it looks like it'll bolt up at the head, thats what you need to check out.

Hmmm, a Patrol with dual sidedrafts....


1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock
Grow the Nissan Community and stand up for ORV user rights!