WE'd need to build gasifiers first and dehydrate the chipped hippies- too much work. Besides, some of them might have already built one( or more) gasifiers

http://onestraw.wordpress.com/fema-gasifier-sustain-jefferson-style/

... It would be much easier to burn wood chips

... or compost them for heat and gas, like Jean Pain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHRvwNJRNag&feature=related
note the 2nd part in the right column.

VERy interesting guy!

Powered his truck, from compressed biogas, made all his hot water from compost- all from brushthinnings from the surrounding forest.

What is really funny is that I've posted alot of this info years ago on here.. Had a link to a wood gas generator, etc, but it seems to have been deleted from the archives, so I cant bring it back up.

Bill, nice to see you bring the topic back up. Energy costs are America's #1 crisis right now that we must solve in order to maintain our way of life. We need to get the NIB's out of the way and build the infrastructure to support out country, energy wise.

Just wait until gas hits $5, $7, $10/gal... Energy costs affect us from the bottom up. Its just now starting to trickle up to where we're seeing higher food prices, etc. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING will be affected...

High fuel prices may work in Europe, but America is a bigger place, more spread out. Many Americans are going to hurt like we've never hurt before.

Our lives will all change pretty drastically in the next 5 years...

quote:

High fuel prices may work in Europe, but America is a bigger place, more spread out.

Most European Countries are the size of an average U.S. state!

quote:

Originally posted by datz510:
What is really funny is that I've posted alot of this info years ago on here..

I remember ,vivdly, that posting on gasifiers.


We've got 3 compost piles , here a t home, but no wood chipper( and no time).

I do know how to make hot compost.

I once mixed ~20 yards of restaurant food waste( it had been collected commercially , and mixed w/ lime)- a worm breeder was going to use it, and never got around to it.


Anyway, all it was doing was breeding flies, as it was too anaerobic/dense/fatty. I wanted to clear brush around the property to lessen the fire hazard, and thought- why not mix it w/ the food waste?

So I did- unchipped brush( resinous chaparral) was layered w/ the waste, and wetted thoroughly, as I built up the pile.

After 3 weeks it caught fire. There was actually puddles of black tarry oily substance at the bottom( pyrolysis?)

I had covered it up w/ visqueen to conserve moisture/heat. It worked too well.

Once temps get up in the 160F range a different set of factors take hold( so I have read)- alcohols start to form, and spontaneous combustion starts to tempt the pile. Especially when dealing w/ large piles of a few cubic yards or more-the heat created being greater than can be dissapated.

What I don't understand is that Jean dude didn't have his piles covered to conserve moisture that evap's off constantly.. When the pile get's too dry, microbial action slows, and /or the pile can "light off"( catch fire).

I guess he kept the piles watered well.

more on the process-
http://www.daenvis.org/technology/Jeanpan.htm

Let me throw this alcohol on the fire...

Why drill our own land? Oil is used for so much more than fuel. Its effects everything, and I mean everything we do. So why use our own?

I say leave our country alone. If we find an alternative then we don't have holes everywhere. But if we don't then we have petroleum reserves much longer then anyone else.

In the middle east there is oil and sand and thats it, when the oil is gone they have nothing. And then we sit here with a developed military say "Oh you want our oil? Well I think its about $300 a barrel for you"

Think about it.

quote:

Originally posted by dieselWillie:
Let me throw this alcohol on the fire...

Why drill our own land? .

Because it provides jobs/$$$ for the American Economy( instead of foreign economies). Much of the rise in cost of oil is due to speculation - fueled by the uncertainty of our own supplies here( strictly restricted over the years) and uncertainty of supplies overseas in areas of questionable stability. Increase the availability- here- and speculation will drop
( costs will drop for a barrel of crude)


Why send money overseas? Why increase our trade imbalance?

Think about that.

What I am trying to get at is about holding all the cards.

All countries with oil beneath their feet have a finite resource. In a game of attrition you need to have the most for the longest. And if you have a chance such take from the "enemy", why not?

quote:

Originally posted by dieselWillie:
What I am trying to get at is about holding all the cards.

All countries with oil beneath their feet have a finite resource. In a game of attrition you need to have the most for the longest. And if you have a chance such take from the "enemy", why not?

So inthe meantime speculators( and these foreign countries) "drive" our economy into the dirt?

You assume that oil is finite and that "PEAK OIL " theory is etched in stone. It is not a given.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

It's just a countdown to how many years away we are from the movie "Road Warrior" to become reality.

quote:

Originally posted by Desert Rat:
It's just a countdown to how many years away we are from the movie "Road Warrior" to become reality.

I think you're right- if we keep the status quo declared by the enviro nazi's- buying foreign oil instead of drilling here and off the coast.



But our saving grace will be conservation and alternative technologies ( and drilling here, of course)- those should all buffer the energy deficit.

The one thing missing from this thread is the myriad of consumer goods that need oil
( fractions/distillates) in order to be manufactured.


Everything from plastics to aspirin to clothing all depend on oil.

Sure there are alternative technologies that can step in ofr some of these consumer goods, but EVERYWHERE you look, petrochemicals plays a part.
http://www.npradc.org/news/facts/petrochemical.cfm

There's no way we can go cold turkey like Algordo wants.

Let's say that an alternative to gasoline is 50 years down the road. Let's say it's also going to be as expensive as hell. Because I don't see anything else you can PUMP out of the ground as easy as old rotten prehistoric forests.

What do we do until those 50 years are up? Do we sit on our own oil, while sending all of the U.S.'s money overseas to other countries? Many have been preaching for DECADES that it's unfair the U.S. is so rich, and other countries are so poor. It's what Obama says today even. Infact there's many hippies, socialists, and liberals that actually want to destroy America like this!

In 50 years the U.S. will look like mexico. Buildings in need of repair, electical and utility systems falling apart, dirt and gravel roads, high crime, corrupt police, corrupt government. All because we didn't drill. Is it worth it?

What harm could it do to drill here? MAYBE You'll see a tiny oil rig off the coast, at low tide? It'll ruin your view when you go to the beach? That's worth ruining everyone's quality of life for? I think not.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Horrocks:What harm could it do to drill here? MAYBE You'll see a tiny oil rig off the coast, at low tide? It'll ruin your view when you go to the beach? That's worth ruining everyone's quality of life for? I think not.

I doubt you'll see the rigs. Most of the big oil is in deep water- beyond 30 miles- which is well beyond the horizon..


In the Sant Barbara Channel, ( if they drilled) it would decrease the pressure in the reserve- and lessen the natural seepage at the surface- lessening the "seepage"/pollution that has gone on for millenia.

I think we need to just drill our own and let the middle easterners pay us $50 bucks per loaf of bread. I also think that in 50 years when we think the wells will have run dry, that we will have developed technologies to drill even deeper.
Lator.....

What are the potential consequences of the Earth being depleted of oil? To me, it seems as if the oil is like the blood of the Earth. We know what would happen if we animals were to run out of blood.