'box is todays big winner!!
Thanx bro. Wanna get them in before Moab at the end of June.
Appreciate the help. Maybe the truck will be in shape this trip. Missed GONE due to lack of funds and bent shat.
Not THIS time!

SO, where exactly did the extra disk go? What part was removed?

Thanks to OffroadX I just got an LSD for my front end and I want to tweak it out before the install.

Piscator,
We deal in lead, friend.

Piscator, if you got that from Brent I'm assuming you were the one he was pulling the 300ZX LSD for. If so, you don't have to worry about the extra discs because that LSD is a different design than the one in the H233B rear.

I know because I have had one since April and have torn it down twice already.

Quite basically, the LSD in the H233B uses the stack of clutch plates and the spring to create the tension in the diff. The 300ZX LSD also does this, but goes one step further: The spider setup is a 4-pin afair and has cams on all the pin ends, which mate with cam plates that are wedged INBETWEEN all the clutch discs and springs. So when you gas it, the cam plates spread and increases the tension on the LSD. Pretty sweet, wish the H233B LSD was like this. The 300ZX LSD also has a PAIR of springs on each end, instead of the one per side that that H233B LSD has.

E-mail or PM me if you want some pictures of the guts to understand what I am talking about.


...soon to be 4x4!

Spiffy news! I was hoping to open it up and see what makes it tick in the process. Perhaps we should rig up a jig to test the breakaway torque as noted here:

http://www.gordon-glasgow.org/lsdtech.html

The pressure ring you noted is also detailed. Missed that before.

If it's weak, we can tweak it. If not, we're golden! Discs available here: http://courtesyparts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CP&Category_Code=z31_nismo_limitedslip


Brent

Sounds kind of like a 'quaife" type. variable resistance. Cool.

OnnlyOneDR, I'd love some pix. My email is boberle@mail.aacpl.net.

Brent, could do. A slightly hier than stock breakaway would probably be a useful thing for keeping it locked.

I'm less concerned about adding a disk to the h223 since using the 140 worked so well. I'll bring some by for you to try.

Piscator,
We deal in lead, friend.

You have new mail.

To help in the future I will be creating a page to add to my website that details all of this. I will update this thread when I complete it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Piscator:
Sounds kind of like a 'quaife" type. variable resistance. Cool.

---

If the used 300ZX diff is setup like the Calmini one, it's not variable like a Quaife it's either locked or unlocked. In practice it's locked or slightly slipping. Apply power and the cam locks the clutch pack. The Quaife and Zexel Torsen transfer a fixed ratio of power from the slipping wheel to the one with traction. The percentage is a function of the gear design. It really does nothing until you have slip. A ratio of 4:1 is pretty common. If a slipping wheel has 100 lbs of force the opposing wheel is getting 400 lbs. And if a wheel is in the air it transfers nothing. That's why applying brakes can help with those.

The cam in the clutch pack doesn't provide enough variability to behave the same way. My Calmini LSD behaves like a Detroit locker. On the throttle it's a spool. You have to unload it to get it to slip. It's pretty violent when it does slip. Turns at a standstill are pretty tough. I've been able to lift a wheel and not spin it.

I talked to Steve Kramer at Calmini about using a Quaife in our fronts and his opinion is they are not beefy enough for offroad use. A rear axle application would be fine, but we'd destroy one in the front.

MNOC Kansas Krawlers

Aero Steve,
Oh, thanks for the clarification. From reading the description it sounds like it'd be more flexible.

The calmini units are sure to be tighter than mine what with it being out of an old 300zx and all. Still it may be tight enough. or we may tweak it. I got plenty of time to figure out what to do.

thanks

Piscator,
We deal in lead, friend.

Here's a Z car page describing the R200 LSD and how to set it up.

MNOC Kansas Krawlers

Update since last month on the results of my initial addition of two disc; one to each side of the diff case A & B for my stock LSD in the H233B.

Wasn’t as tight as I would have liked so I added another pair of 1.4mm disc's for a total of 14 disc, which is two more than >2002+.

What I did is stack the friction discs back to back each time grooved side out (one side is smooth and the other is gooved).

I had to remove one of the two spring plates on the end of the stack otherwise the stack binds against the case because it’s too thick even when I just added a single pair of additional friction discs.

I used 180lbs of LSD rotating torque the first time and decided to try that again. On the street it seem a slight bit tighter and will be trying it out thing weekend on some trails.

As far as the R200 LSD's from the rear of the Z's those have to be modified (opened up) on the short side (left) since there is no groove in the axle. Sort of like a c-clip setup.

Right side has a snap ring & bolt so it’s no problem

FINALLY, the numbers. As I read it, 1.4mm is what you used the first time as well.
Not as tight as you would have liked? I thought you said it was nearly spool-like, you were dragging the inside tire around corners etc. How much tighter can you get it?
I'm confused about what you're saying about torque though. If you got 180 ft-lbs for the breakaway torque with just one pair of extra discs, I would expect that number to jump a good bit with 2 extra pairs of discs with nothing coming back out.

The Z diff doesn't have the bolt retainer inside the short-side side gear. You simply need to remove it from your open diff side gear and have it pressed into the LSD side gear and you're good, at least that's what OnlyOneDR did. The Z shaft is held fairly lightly by the clip (just pull it right on out), the truck flange is held in by a bolt that goes in through the length of the output flange to the side gear. The shafts are basically turned opposite length-wise, our splines are on the outside end, Z is at the diff end.


?
Brent

OffroadX,

Used 1.5mm on the first set of disc and 1.4mm on the second set.

Never said it was spool like on mine, you might be confusing comments made after GONE on TK1 and Wheelit X’s?

Yeah, I should have said I was going for 180lbs of rotating torque after the first set but I didn’t get it, was closer after I added the second set, but still ~10lbs away. Turns out two of the existing discs were worn down ~.4mm each so those were replaced and I finally ended up with ~ 177lbs. I think stock is 120lbs from what a nissan tech told me.

Read the same thing elsewhere about pressing in the stock retainer/end cap into the R200A & removing the clips out of the LSD case, but I was told CALMINI is doing something extra/different (not using the same part as in the open diff?) so I’m wondering what?

I'm guessing Calmini has their own retainers machined and pressed into the cases since they don't have the one from the open diff to swap.

I scored a brand new 33-spline H233B LSD chunk on Ebay for $10 over the weekend. If it is indeed the 4.363 ratio it appears to be, then I'll at least take the virgin clutch pack from it to use in my 4.636 rear end as a baseline for adding extra discs. Wahoo!

Brent

FYI, I've kinda taken this topic over to the NOR board:
http://www.nissanoffroad.net/messageboard/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6063
I'm hoping that we can benefit from the advice of Pat the Nissan Tech there.

Brent

Please give us an update if you find anything out at NOR. Would rather keep this thread updated then join yet another board. your doing some research but some of the correlations, guesses, and comments your attributing to me are a bit off IMO

The 90-95’s pathy LSD provides virtually the same lock-up. I have a 90’s pathy and the LSD was really not substantial different than the X. The rotating torque spec for these is 148-177 ft lbs. in my pathy manual. Maybe your confusing/referencing 200-240nm of torque which is ~ equivalent. No way did pathys come anywhere near >250lbs of rotating torque from the factory, tires would squeal around ever corner I would think and diff action would be much too harsh for daily drivers.

All the friction discs in my LSD are virtually flat on one side like I said before doesn’t make much diff if there is some scoring on the backside; there is only clutch/friction action on one side that matters in the stock setup. I can post pictures of the discs if you like, but look at your diagrams and you can clearly see this is the case. The plates on the other hand are scored as you call it on both sides.

My update… I been testing my new 20 friction disc setup for ~ 3 weeks now since the 14 I previous tired still we’rent tight enough for me. Don’t really know how much rotating torque I have over > 200lbs since my wrench is maxed out but I would quess its not even in the high range you posted about for 95 pathys.

My stock case had 2 spring plates (S), 12 friction plates (P), and 10 friction discs (D)

On each side of my stock case:
<case>SSPDPDPDPDPDP<gear>

90-95’s Pathys 4 Pinion; 1 Spring plate (S), 1 Spring Disc (R), 12 friction plates (P), and 10 friction discs (D)
<case>SRPDPDPDPDPDP<gear>

FYI I set mine up just like my pathy and also like a stock >=2002 and it didn’t really improve the lockup much. 14 friction discs where better but still not enough for me.

Now I have this setup on each side:
<case>SSDDPDDPDDPDDPDDP<gear>

I’m really happy now with my setup think I’m getting the max amount of rotating toque that’s possible without binding on the case, big improvement over stock off-road but I wouldn’t recommend if for those with DD’s, live in wet weather environments, care too much about tire wear, or rear drive train warranty. For those that are comfortable w/ tearing apart/working with diffs and have access to the parts this is a nice inexpensive modification and manly about getting the most out of the factory stuff.

With that said for those that have asked if this mod is a substitute for a full locker. IMO no way since a locker works differently, doesn’t allow any wheel spin, and transfers all the power to the wheel w / traction. A tight rear LSD will help a bunch in some lower traction situations but for example… if your climbing rocks uphill, lift a rear tire while the front tires are lite generally not enough power is transferred to the opposite rear tire to give enough traction to continue climbing