Well, I guess it's time to start picking brains and asking for pointers to information. For those not already aware of it I have a 1969 Patrol with a blown engine that I'm planning to do an engine and axle swap on (the "VerMonster Patrol").

I have a lot of general mechanical and shop experience and 'tool time' in but this will be my most ambitious project by far and I'll need to learn a lot before I even start building. This winter I'll be tearing it apart and preparing the frame and body and expect to be ready in the early spring to buy the parts I'll need. Here's where my thinking is at right now:

Axles:
I'm pretty sure I want to go with Dana44 in front and Ford 9" rear, both from an Early Bronco because of the axle length. They're about 58" and the stock Patrol axles are about 55". I'll most likely want to install disk brakes in front if not already present. Comments?

Engine, Tranny, Transfer Case:
Originally, I was thinking of getting a donor Bronco with either a 302 or 351w and using the tranny and engine, at least, in addition to the axles. Now, I'm wondering if I could use a Nissan V6, including tranny and transfer case, out of a Pathy or Hardbody. I'd really love to have a Nissan power plant in there and it would be nice to have a more modern engine. Also, I could have a 5 Spd Manual if I so chose. Stuff like power steering, etc. might be easier since it'd have the pump already and so forth but that's another subject.

I asked Shad to measure his '95 Pathy and he said it's about 69 1/2" from fan to transfer case rear flange. That's about the same distance as what's on there now. I'll have to compare mounting points, how far down the case would hang, etc. but I'm wondering if the 3.0 liter engine would have enough HP for this vehicle for crawling. I know the later ones are a little more HP and would consider them but there are more of the 3-Liter engines in my price range. I'll want to turn 33's at the very, very least (depending on clearance) but I'm not yet sure what gearing I'll decide on. I guess there are plenty of Pathys and HB's with SAS using the VG30 and the Patrol is lighter...

Comments? Am I missing something? I guess I'd need to have some custom drive shafts made but can anyone tell me why they think the Nissan setup wouldn't work?

Also, Datz - if you get the time and feel like measuring your fan-to-rear flange distance, it would give me something to compare.

Well, that's enough for now. Thanks for input in advance.

-Greg

'90 D21 4Cyl Man - VerMonster Patrol in the works...

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Originally posted by dogwater:
Axles:
I'm pretty sure I want to go with Dana44 in front and Ford 9" rear, both from an Early Bronco because of the axle length. They're about 58" and the stock Patrol axles are about 55". I'll most likely want to install disk brakes in front if not already present. Comments?

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Excellent choice. DEFINITELY get disk brakes.. I cant emphasize this enough. My drum brake setup is just plain SCARY on the road. It goes from medium braking to full locked up wheels very quickly.. and doesnt stop well at all.

quote:

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Engine, Tranny, Transfer Case:
Originally, I was thinking of getting a donor Bronco with either a 302 or 351w and using the tranny and engine, at least, in addition to the axles. Now, I'm wondering if I could use a Nissan V6, including tranny and transfer case, out of a Pathy or Hardbody. I'd really love to have a Nissan power plant in there and it would be nice to have a more modern engine. Also, I could have a 5 Spd Manual if I so chose. Stuff like power steering, etc. might be easier since it'd have the pump already and so forth but that's another subject.

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The Nissan v6 would be a great fit. Its about 6-8" shorter than the v8 thats in mine. Use a slimline fan in front of the radiator to get the engine as close as you can to the radiator. If you plan on running larger than 35" tires, TRY to work in a dual Tcase arrangement. Mine has terrible low range (1.96:1) and with the 36" tires, its lucky it has the V8 torque to move it along.

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I asked Shad to measure his '95 Pathy and he said it's about 69 1/2" from fan to transfer case rear flange. That's about the same distance as what's on there now. I'll have to compare mounting points, how far down the case would hang, etc. but I'm wondering if the 3.0 liter engine would have enough HP for this vehicle for crawling. I know the later ones are a little more HP and would consider them but there are more of the 3-Liter engines in my price range. I'll want to turn 33's at the very, very least (depending on clearance) but I'm not yet sure what gearing I'll decide on. I guess there are plenty of Pathys and HB's with SAS using the VG30 and the Patrol is lighter...

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With less HP, its going to be all about gearing. The main problem with the Nissan drivetrain is that it needs at least 5.13 gears to turn 33s. Mine has 4.11's in the axles and turns the 36"s fine on the road with the torque of the V8, but it probably wouldnt even move with a V6 under the hood. For offroad use, I'd rather have 5.00+ gears. So, look around for gearing to get the axles reduced as much as possible.

I honestly doubt I will ever exceed 50-55mph in this thing, so shorter gears would really help with mine. 45mph is really pretty scary.

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Comments? Am I missing something? I guess I'd need to have some custom drive shafts made but can anyone tell me why they think the Nissan setup wouldn't work?

Also, Datz - if you get the time and feel like measuring your fan-to-rear flange distance, it would give me something to compare.

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OK, I'll try to do this tonight if I can. Should be pretty easy to do under the truck.

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"I'm just a bill... on Capitol Hill.."

I can totally respect the fact that you want to keep it as much of a Nissan as possible, but I really think it would be cheaper to throw in a 4.3 or something along those lines.

Way cheaper to go with domestic and alot more aftermart for power, gears, etc.

Whatever you do, pony up the money for a fuel injected system.

i love driving that patrol at 65mph, if it could have gone faster, i would.....




GOT ANY BALLS??????????

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Originally posted by datz510:
DEFINITELY get disk brakes.. I cant emphasize this enough.

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Yeah, it sounds like you're having fun - getting your heartrate up is good for you...

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Use a slimline fan in front of the radiator

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Yeah, I was thinking that, too.

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If you plan on running larger than 35" tires, TRY to work in a dual Tcase arrangement.

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That would be very cool, indeed, if it would fit. I'll need to learn more about that. Really, if I can fit 35" tires without butchering it, I'll be ecstatic.

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For offroad use, I'd rather have 5.00+ gears. So, look around for gearing to get the axles reduced as much as possible.

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Yeah, that makes sense. I need to go back and look at what's available. Also, if I go with Nissan it would probably make sense to try to get a 3.2 or 3.3 L V6 if possible for the increased HP.

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OK, I'll try to do this tonight if I can. Should be pretty easy to do under the truck.

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Thanks, you're a gentleman and a scholar.

hey what about landcruiser axles? fj60 or 80s?

'95 Path (POS though)
'85 Yota Std Cab

an1malch1n - Well, it really does appeal to me quite a lot to keep it as much Nissan as possible. Maybe that's irrational. The wheelbase is pretty short so there's not all that much room for a lot of choices. My main concern would be being underpowered or having to gear too far down, more than cost.

Whatever I do, yes I'll go fuel injected.

Zeeto - I have thought about them (actually the FJ40's or pre-86 PU) but they're about as wide as the Patrol and I thought a little wider would be good. I guess I never looked at the FJ60 or FJ70 axles. They probably are wider but maybe too wide.

I guess my understanding was it took more fabrication to make the Toy axles as strong (obviously I haven't been paying attention - I know I'm opening a can of worms ). I have been tempted to go that way - I see old toys go by in the paper for very little pretty regularly.

Hey! Wait a minute! Ahem... As a matter of fact I have the tube and shafts of a toy rear axle right here if you want one... Ahem... I say, I have one here, if you want it...

I do think that the D44/Ford9 are a good choice - they should be strong enough for my purposes, they are the right size, parts are readily available, aftermarket is vast and cheap.

You can run 35-37" tires with 5.13's and the nissan V6. If they ever come out with the transfercase gears you will beable to crawl real good. You could use a V6 rearend and get a high-pinion 44 and have it narrowed for the front. You would have good power but not enough that you would be breaking axles very often. You could get a Nissan auto for crawling but it wouldn't be as good as a 5speed for power on the road.

well the 60-80 axles are beefier than pu/runnner axles...i'm actually thinking of going to them on my yota. bolt in e-locker with 4.88s for $750.
i totally forgot about that axle. let me figure out when i can get it. i would come get it this weekend but im going to pick another axle up sunday. sh!t i totally forgot and feel like an ass now

'95 Path (POS though)
'85 Yota Std Cab

For the rear axle, if you are going D44 up front, dont go with the Nissan h233b in the rear. Why swap in an axle that's going to have mega expensive gears when you can just throw in a much cheaper Ford 9"? They are a dime a dozen. You can get complete 9"s for $100.

I just checked gear prices for the 9" and Dana44. Gear sets are running about $120 per axle retail. That right there justifies the Ford 9", since you'll have to regear anyway. Sure its not Nissan, but I really feel its best to swap out both front and rear axles at the same time and its much much cheaper not to mix the Nissan and Dana.

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"I'm just a bill... on Capitol Hill.."

I have to agree with that, as this is my delema now. I have the dana 44 with the 513's now, and to make my rear work will mean spending $575 on the ring and pinion, another $250 on the install kit, and then around $150 to have them installed! For that money, I can have a entire d44 or 9" rear, gear it, lock it, and put a disc brake kit on it. So, that's what I am going to do. I will keep the stock rear until money allows the rear end swap, and until then, I just won't use the front diff.

I wouldn't put 9 inch in a short wheelbase since they have the lowest pinion. This would just cause more driveline problems, a 44 would be plenty strong for any V6 or small block V8. Just remember there isn't anything you can put in there that can't be broken if you try hard enough.

I'm sure I'll get flamed all to hell for this, but here is my suggestion. And it's been proven over time.

4.3 Chevy
Th700r4
Dual Toyota cases
stock low in front case, 4.7:1 in rear case
Toyota axle F/R

Whatever spring combo you feel necessary
100" wheelbase.

This is a VERY strong setup, and I'll bet you could hit any trail you want with this setup.

_____________________________

1988 Nissan Pathfinder, Bone Stock (sorta)

I'm a Funky Chinaman from Funky Chinatown. LET'S GET IT AWN!

Being able to get laid doesn't mean that you're attractive. There's always someone as horny as you are ugly.

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Originally posted by zeeto:
sh!t i totally forgot and feel like an ass now

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Hahahahah!!! Don't worry about it, bro. I was wondering if you'd forgotten. I've been leaving hints on various posts. Just let me know when you want to get it. Hey, join the North East Trailrides List if you want. We're 14 strong so far and are planning runs.