No dear, read my statement again. You have to have the policy PAID for an entire year - and provide proof of said policy - before they will issue a group permit. Hello - why do you think I freaked out about it? Geez, if it was only like $100 I would have done it in a heartbeat!





"You can shout it with adjectives."

Chit. There's gotta be a way to do this.


1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock

Urban sprawl is the ENEMY! Get active and help stop it.

Let me call the really mean guy again and see what advice he has, but I'm telling you - better for EACH person to have their own permit! We can get app's and people can mail them in w/ their check.





"You can shout it with adjectives."

I guess we'll just require everyone to get a permit ahead of time, and we'll be sure to actually do our camping on BLM land.


1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock

Urban sprawl is the ENEMY! Get active and help stop it.

Two ways to go here. Join the ASA4WDC and be covered under their blanket million dollar policy, or advise participants on how to obtain permits.

State Trust Land has no enforcement officers, only two areas are being ticketed by local enforcement agencies. One is out at the White Tanks by Peoria and the other is across from the new Bashas on US 60 by Gold Canyon by Pinal County Sheriffs. Citations for the lack of a permit are only for the individual cited, if we suggest people obtain the permits, and provide mail addresses to obtain them I think that is enough.

That said, I LOVE the idea of having a common camp. People can come and go as they need to, knowing where we will be. It works great for GOX, and keeps to many trucks off one particular trail. It's fun to meet up at night and talk about what you ran that day.

Just my .02

MArshall de Buca de Supai

Only problem w/ joining the ASA4WDC is that they require you to be incorporated and right now, I'm not ready to do that. I'm sure within the next year or so we may go that route, but I see no reason to charge dues and bring politics into a bunch of friends that happen to own Nissans and enjoy using them. Everybody chime in here if you think I'm way off base.





"You can shout it with adjectives."

Yeah, I don't really want to incorporate. I already don't have enough time to do anything and having that to worry about will just make things worse. Individual permits it is. There is a limit to group size which is why we'll go camp on BLM land.

Waiting for Datz510 to chime in. I know we talked about a lot of other trails, etc. I'd guess we'd all move camp at least once, as 3-4 days in one spot means we'd run about everything available there and we'd move on.

Anyways, we gotta start plotting trail runs in that area then. Will be breaking out the books and maybe this weekend I'll throw together a potential itinerary and see what everyone thinks. I loved the ideas that John and I had to start with, but if we have a large group, it'll just suck. The slinky effect on the trail with a big group really detracts from the fun of the run. I think there's easily a weeks worth of activity in the FJ / Superior area.


1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock

Urban sprawl is the ENEMY! Get active and help stop it.

The other thing about keeping a common camp is that we don't need to haul all our crap around all week.

The drawback is that it deviates from the AZ Run tradition of overland travel.

John, Duerk, any thoughts?


1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock

Urban sprawl is the ENEMY! Get active and help stop it.

If the camp was "easier" to get to, it'd also be possible to tow in a light trailer with support supplies. Maybe a generator and a fridge =).

Well, I love the overland thing too, but I HATE hualing my crap it really weighs the truck down. What we could do is, days 1-3 stationary camping with network of trails. Back into town for a night to resupply and gear up and do days 4-6/7 overland. Best of both worlds and we cater to all. Those not interested in overland adventure high speeed wash stuff and want to get some AZ rockcrawling in, come days 1-3 only. Same for those only interested in the latter and finally us crazy guys who want to do it all .

Duerk is right, a combo might be the way to go. Except do it the other way around with the static camp at the end, since the run starts during the week, and ends on the weekend.

Well everyone would be too tired to do tough trails at the end of the week. Also trails like Woodpecker, Coke ovens etc will be more crowded on the weekend where if we do them during the week we will have them to ourselves.

The overland type trails are less traveled and not as well known so they will be relitively open, even on the weekend.

That's good thinking. Let me play with some maps and see what I can come up with. I'd really like to avoid extensive highway miles.


1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock

Urban sprawl is the ENEMY! Get active and help stop it.

I can only think of two areas that have enough trails. Table Mesa (crowded) and FJ, Superior.

I can even haul my trailer out there with a bunch o crap. We could even rent a small Winnebago for the crapper/shower.

But in the end, it doesn't matter to me, I'll go wherever.

I was just looking at maps of trails in the FJ/Superior area.. There are a LOT of trails out there. TONS of trails, actually.

This would be a great area for AZ 4. Coke Ovens, Battleaxe, etc. There is a whole list of trails that would connect together pretty well.


BEEFYJames Fabrication - Custom Fabricated for Use and Abuse
Nissan Terrano .. "Take a grip of Steering!"

Bring your maps Saturday and we can talk further, John.


1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock

Urban sprawl is the ENEMY! Get active and help stop it.

I would.. but they are on my comptuer.

I'll bring what I have.


BEEFYJames Fabrication - Custom Fabricated for Use and Abuse
Nissan Terrano .. "Take a grip of Steering!"

Me too. We'll figure something out.


1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock

Urban sprawl is the ENEMY! Get active and help stop it.

we're incorporated.
we're not a member of the as4wda.
we should be.
it's your deal; but i think talking is an option.

How many hoops did you all have to jump through to get incorporated? What does the insurance cost? Lee, if you have info on how all that works and what it would cost, I'd be very interested to know.


1998 Frontier 4x4 with ALL the goodies!
2002 Xterra 4x4 still stock

Urban sprawl is the ENEMY! Get active and help stop it.